I agree - I actually had tears in my eyes by the time he finished (& truth be told, I'm not really an advocate of marriage for anyone! - but I do think that marriage should be available for all who want it - I get so sick of hearing how god wanted marriage to be one man & one woman - marriage is a legal contract - people need to stop confusing the legal concept ofmarriage with the religious concept of marriage - separation of church & state & all that).
Thanks for pointing out that it is the simple "Love your Neighbor" Laws that are ignored by zealots, and it is zealots who make these mistakes.
I have another why is it, too, Meribeth. Why is it that the first thing that happens after the inspirational person disappears from this plane, is that the "money managing" ministers take over the movement and, using the power that money gives them to buy officials, kill off the ones who want to keep the message simple and accessible? Why is that? Is money always going to win?
That is exactly why I will never join an organized religion. Money is expected, through offering or through tithe. Sure to support the efforts of the church, but then it is filtered up and out to those who are not part of the community. It is all about power, and this power is not usually for the better good. Then I am supposed to accept blindly what the church tells me to think and do. I think NOT.
Speaking of that, I heard a blip on the news about a church telling the members that they will not be allowed to take communion if they voted for a certain Pres. candidate. Lovely. Using peoples faith and trust like that is shameful. And often I think about Jesus and what he would make of all of this. This that is done in his name.
mwknitter, Marriage is something that was usurped by the church and ritualized. There are many countries that still have civil ceremonies in order for the union to be legalized, and then the couple has a religious ceremony at their own church.
I agree that marriage is first and foremost a community or legal contract. That's all the government we need in it. Clerks who don't want to perform all wedding ceremonies should excuse themselves, with as little harassing comment as possible, or get another job.
The spiritual contract is the responsibility of the church but no church or group of churches, should ever, in this country, have a say over what constitutes a legal marriage. We have freedom of religion here, unless they forgot it, and that moves both ways. We can't have a secular government owned and operated by the church, as it was in Medieval times, either. And, furthermore, and on this basis alone, Proposition 8 is illegal. It's a group of religious zealots who got together to have the State enforce their own view of what marriage consists of.
Wrong wrong wrong!
Meribeth, you can see how far this is going, if communion is disallowed for people who vote for the "wrong" candidate. If it's true, that means ex-communication. At least that's what it means to most. How disgusting.
I'm glad to be a Quaker. We and the Unitarians are really different.
You are welcome, Sarah-Hope. It is a very powerful and moving commentary.
I believe the time has come to throw away the twisted Medieval thinking that still walls us into dogmas- the thinking which keeps us from growing into being "Real Human Beings" - those beings who have cultivated a pure heart of loving kindness and harm no one.
Knitnana I think this was a special commentary or something.
And yes, it really is about love-unconditional or perfect as God himself loves.
This may come as a shock to some but one of the conditions made by the son for seeing the father was to practice perfect, or unconditional love. It's in their bible,too; they just forget to remember it.
Wonderful - we went to one of the rallies in San F last weekend and it was inspirational too.
We got married for purely financial reasons, ie to merge pensions and house ownership etc. However I was surprised at how moved I was when we got down to the public professing and acknowledging of our love for each other. I wouldn't deny that to another living soul.
Exactly, another living soul... I'm very tired of being told that Love doesn't extend to everyone, especially when it's God's Love they are professing to know all about. If, and that's a big IF, an error was made, it was made by God and who are we to even say it was an error, or to question it?
If something is said in a holy book that is contrary to the perfect Law of Love, then it's a rule that was slipped in there by a fallible person who is not loving as God would love, frankly.
Why is it? The simplest is always the hardest to do.
ReplyDeleteMeribeth
I agree - I actually had tears in my eyes by the time he finished (& truth be told, I'm not really an advocate of marriage for anyone! - but I do think that marriage should be available for all who want it - I get so sick of hearing how god wanted marriage to be one man & one woman - marriage is a legal contract - people need to stop confusing the legal concept ofmarriage with the religious concept of marriage - separation of church & state & all that).
ReplyDeleteThanks for pointing out that it is the simple "Love your Neighbor" Laws that are ignored by zealots, and it is zealots who make these mistakes.
ReplyDeleteI have another why is it, too, Meribeth. Why is it that the first thing that happens after the inspirational person disappears from this plane, is that the "money managing" ministers take over the movement and, using the power that money gives them to buy officials, kill off the ones who want to keep the message simple and accessible? Why is that? Is money always going to win?
That is exactly why I will never join an organized religion. Money is expected, through offering or through tithe. Sure to support the efforts of the church, but then it is filtered up and out to those who are not part of the community. It is all about power, and this power is not usually for the better good. Then I am supposed to accept blindly what the church tells me to think and do. I think NOT.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of that, I heard a blip on the news about a church telling the members that they will not be allowed to take communion if they voted for a certain Pres. candidate. Lovely. Using peoples faith and trust like that is shameful. And often I think about Jesus and what he would make of all of this. This that is done in his name.
Meribeth
mwknitter, Marriage is something that was usurped by the church and ritualized. There are many countries that still have civil ceremonies in order for the union to be legalized, and then the couple has a religious ceremony at their own church.
ReplyDeleteI agree that marriage is first and foremost a community or legal contract. That's all the government we need in it. Clerks who don't want to perform all wedding ceremonies should excuse themselves, with as little harassing comment as possible, or get another job.
The spiritual contract is the responsibility of the church but no church or group of churches, should ever, in this country, have a say over what constitutes a legal marriage. We have freedom of religion here, unless they forgot it, and that moves both ways. We can't have a secular government owned and operated by the church, as it was in Medieval times, either. And, furthermore, and on this basis alone, Proposition 8 is illegal. It's a group of religious zealots who got together to have the State enforce their own view of what marriage consists of.
Wrong wrong wrong!
Meribeth, you can see how far this is going, if communion is disallowed for people who vote for the "wrong" candidate. If it's true, that means ex-communication. At least that's what it means to most. How disgusting.
I'm glad to be a Quaker. We and the Unitarians are really different.
Thanks, Lella for posting this. I think I'll be putting it up on my blog, too. I love his passion and clarity on the issue.
ReplyDeleteYou are welcome, Sarah-Hope. It is a very powerful and moving commentary.
ReplyDeleteI believe the time has come to throw away the twisted Medieval thinking that still walls us into dogmas- the thinking which keeps us from growing into being "Real Human Beings" - those beings who have cultivated a pure heart of loving kindness and harm no one.
I listen to Olbermann every night. How did I miss this one? Thank you for posting it...
ReplyDeleteIt's truly is a simple question of love.
(((hugs)))
Knitnana I think this was a special commentary or something.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, it really is about love-unconditional or perfect as God himself loves.
This may come as a shock to some but one of the conditions made by the son for seeing the father was to practice perfect, or unconditional love. It's in their bible,too; they just forget to remember it.
Wonderful - we went to one of the rallies in San F last weekend and it was inspirational too.
ReplyDeleteWe got married for purely financial reasons, ie to merge pensions and house ownership etc. However I was surprised at how moved I was when we got down to the public professing and acknowledging of our love for each other. I wouldn't deny that to another living soul.
"I wouldn't deny that to another living soul."
ReplyDeleteExactly, another living soul... I'm very tired of being told that Love doesn't extend to everyone, especially when it's God's Love they are professing to know all about. If, and that's a big IF, an error was made, it was made by God and who are we to even say it was an error, or to question it?
If something is said in a holy book that is contrary to the perfect Law of Love, then it's a rule that was slipped in there by a fallible person who is not loving as God would love, frankly.